Are we shocked by this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/22/gaza-charity-appeal
-
-
Munzly
- http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
- 2009-01-23 @ 08:13:23
-
-
-
SeasideMan
Pro - 2009-01-23 @ 10:19:22
I don't see why Aid agencies should have to pay for this stuff. Like Munzly said, we know who did the damage so they should pay for it. Well done the BBC in this case, but what is also needed is political pressure from the UN and others to encourage rapprochement.
Tom.-
-
deana24
- 2009-01-23 @ 10:29:17
So if it's a natural disaster that's ok, but helping victims of aggression is wrong if you weren't the aggressor?
Could it be argued that as we were instrumental in creating the state of Israel after the Second World War so we do bear some responsibility?
I do find it interesting...-
-
SeasideMan
Pro
- 2009-01-23 @ 10:47:14
If you bombed my house, I wouldn't expect my neighbours to rebuild it, I'd expect you to do it; but if you refused I'd be asking for help from whoever would listen. If an earthquake did it, I'd hope that everyone would help each other.
We do bear some responsibility for the creation of Israel, but we bear responsibility for neither Israel's state terrorism and war-making nor Hamas's terrorism. The question I always ask at this sort of time is how far back you should go in time. The history of that region goes back a long, long way.
Tom.-
-
deana24
- 2009-01-23 @ 10:55:45
I don't know... I was pondering the time issue. It's only been 50-60 years, which in the great scheme of history is no time at all. When can you morally wash your hands of the messes you create?
Also, you may not feel it is your place to help but is it right to deny your fellow citizens the opportunity? We live in a multicultural Britain where there are British citizens who feel closely allied to this region. Are our broadcasters reflecting Britain as a whole? We all have to pay our licence fee after all.-
-
SeasideMan
Pro
- 2009-01-23 @ 11:24:54
Israel broke Gaza, so surely principle demands that they should fix it? History is not a factor here as it's the current leadership that decided to slaughter 1300 people. If Israel chooses to not do that, then we should impose sanctions against them and then provide government-paid-for aid. If those people are to be helped, it's outrageous that charities should have to do it.
Tom.-
-
deana24
- 2009-01-23 @ 11:40:17
Well I can't see anyone else lifting a finger anymore than I can see the UK or the US introducing any meaningful sanctions.
-
-
SeasideMan
Pro
- 2009-01-23 @ 11:45:06
Governments will do nothing as long as charities take the strain and as long as people expect them to do nothing. If everyone who was bothered about this wrote to their MPs demanding action, something would happen. But no: we give 50p to a charity and there the matter ends. We've become too complacent and disconnected from our representatives and that's a shame. I'm as guilty as anyone else but I aim to get better this year.
Tom.-
-
deana24
- 2009-01-23 @ 11:52:39
I like your faith in the democratic process.
This could make a really interesting blog - how you get on with making a difference, using MPs and councillors. -
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
ajnspencer
Pro - http://www.devonwallart.co.uk
- 2009-01-23 @ 10:53:25
On a logical standpoint it has understandable reasons.
On a humanitarian standpoint... much less so, especially if we're going to enter a blaming game of "not my problem guvnor" and look away when innocents are the victims of aggression, simply because it's not ourselves being the aggressors.
I can't see Israel bending over backwards to help these people, so the rest of the civilised world probably should.-
-
deana24
- 2009-01-23 @ 10:59:39
I think I'm with you.
It also irks me that our so-called democracy embarrasses me at times, especially as I was so supportive of the BBC not so long ago. I feel let down.-
-
ajnspencer
Pro
- http://www.devonwallart.co.uk
- 2009-01-23 @ 11:04:44
I think part of the problem is that not enough people were supportive, speaking from the perspective of someone who was inside the organisation until recently.
Everything in the BBC is so regulated, so careful, so bloody eggshells these days it takes 14 signatures and a rainforest worth of paper just to run a text vote, for a competition or a tricky news story you need the authorisation of a God from one of the mainstream religions signed in Unicorn tears.
Well, unless you're a sleb, but that's a whole other rant.
It sounds to me like they've weighed up the crap they'd take for doing it, and the crap they'd take for NOT doing it and just bottled the whole affair.
It's interesting to note that they've also let the other broadcasters off the hook in this game of chicken, now ITV and Sky can blame the BBC when it might just as easily have been them that made the decision, we simply don't know. -
-
-
-
-
lunadraconis
- 2009-01-23 @ 18:09:22
Phew...possible can of worms here deana! My partner (the Oracle!!!) said that Israel would continue to bomb the cr*p out of Gaza as long as Bush was in office. He said they would stop immediately as soon as The Chimp was removed and voila!
I agree with Tom when he says that the more charities do the less Governments will help. Where I disagree is when he says history doesn't matter because these tit for tat wars are waged on precisely that basis. There is no doubt both Israel and Hamas should be brought to account but how? The UN are pointless and NO western Government is going to upset Israel, who call what they are doing war but who call what Hamas does terrorism! Maybe I'm a bit dim but I can't see the difference myself.
A very wise person once said to me "there will ALWAYS be wars in the Middle East, there's just something in the soil" Meh, it's as good a reason as any I've heard from the warring factions. Wars in cold climates? Not so much eh? -
-
- 2009-01-24 @ 13:28:29
We have created the monster that is called Israel and now we should be responsible for its actions - financially,too.
Morally, Israel is the consequence of Europe's guilt for Holocaust.
Technically, Israel is the product of USA financial pressure groups dictating to the US governments what to do (and more precisely NOT to do).
Unfortunately, Israel has got out of hand and is on its own holocaust mission in the Middle East. Should we stand and watch? Will that compensate for our own guilt? Surely, that is what BBC think (and more to the point - those on top in BBC who makes political decisions there). -
-
suttoof
- 2009-01-25 @ 14:01:11
Thank you BBC for refusing to broadcast the appeal and consequently giving it maximum air time.This should hopefully act a springboard for a comprehensive debate aimed at conflicts and other problems worldwide.
Israel is not solely responsible for the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, the surrounding countries (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon),the entire Arab and Islamic world, the EU and USA must bear their share of the responsibility.
It is our duty as citizens of "democracies" to pressure our politicians and bureaucrats to start acting to find an all encompassing solution for all conflicts worldwide. this should include tackling internal conflicts (Zimbabwe Sudan etc) despotic regimes with an appalling human rights record (Burmah, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran and others too many to mention) pollution with it`s effects on climate change.and the economic crisis.
The costof these actions in monetary terms is likely to be significantly less than the cost of fueling these conflicts and the smoke and mirror attempts currently practised at solving them.
Like or not we share this planet, and it is preferable to share it in peace rather thn conflict. -
-
-
scoobydoofus
Pro - 2009-01-27 @ 12:43:54
I think that the BBC is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. If they had just screened the appeal, some of the papers would have been full of how the BBC is anti-Israel and supports Gaza etc. However, people are suffering, and that should take priority.
I know most people don't have a lot to spare at the moment, but I bet we've got more than those who have endured that mess...
-
-
deana24
- 2009-01-27 @ 13:34:53
From what I hear nothing with an iota of controversy attached to it sees light of day, such is the climate of fear and paranoia within its not-so-hallowed halls these days.
-
-
Surely the people who should pay for this reconstruction are those who did the damage? The bill should be sent to HAMAS and the Israelis, divided according to the amount of damage done by each.
Why should the rest of the world pay for all the gratuitous violence perpetrated as a result of the stupidity of politicians?